ANABELLA LENZU

https://www.anabellalenzu.com/listen-to-your-mother comes to NYC 16th - 19th May 2024!

What is the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent for you?

I had my company in New York City for 10 years, and before that, I had my company in Italy, and before that in Argentina.  So I feel like a cat with different creative lives.  From 2006-2016 in New York, I had my dance company, where the choreographic work talked about individuals and society.  Then when I had my daughter, my second child, in 2013 something changed internally.  All the arrows were pointing outside, towards my family, my kids, my students, and my company members.  I felt no arrows coming in. It wasn’t because I didn’t feel love, it was because I didn’t have time to find out who I was.  It was a period of so much giving, that I could feel myself disappearing, disintegrating.  

So in 2016, I decided to stop my company.  At the same time, I started my Masters, my MFA in choreography.  That was like a trampoline to start investigating my work for a more political, more ritual, and more autobiographical approach.  

In 2018, I premiered a show called “No More Beautiful Dances.” Then I started to work on “The Night that You Stopped Acting”, also autobiographical, and now I’m working on the third one which is “Listen to Your Mother.” For me, it’s an investigation into why I’m dancing or what I’m interested in.  When I had my dance company and had my shows, that wasn’t the reason I danced, but now that I put my body into my work and have become a solo artist - it’s autobiographical.  I have to talk about this, because I feel there isn’t another artist who is talking about how hard it is, in New York specifically, to keep working as a mother, a teacher, an artist, and an immigrant.  Not many people understand these 4 aspects.

As I get older, I’m more curious and interested in the person behind the artist. I hear so many stories of women who have to stop dancing and stop choreographing because they have a family and the feeling is that they need to give it up.  That makes me very sad.  I feel that society and so many institutions don’t understand this very human situation. Apart from the inflexibility, there is of course the struggle for equal pay that still continues.

So I moved to the United States from Argentina, because I have a strong mission, and the mission has to do with people like me.  These voices and realities need to be heard.  It’s almost like I don’t have a choice.  Or I have a choice and I feel that I have to speak up for so many other women. 

What support did you feel you had from work when you were pregnant?

NONE! As a freelance teacher and artist I had no security net. I saved money to take 2 months off after both of my kids were born. It was very hard as a Latina immigrant in USA with no family around.

Was there anything that may not have been in place that you felt could have been useful?

I wish I could have a community of mothers and dancers that would guide me, so that’s why I created my choreographic project research “Listen to Your Mother”.

"Listen to Your Mother" seeks to capture these underrepresented women's stories to inspire dialogue, appreciation, and social support instead of the ongoing prejudice endured that is historically placed against mothers and women in the arts. 

Using my ongoing movement research and embodied practice exploring spoken word, movement, and media, this work will expose and capture the body histories of mothers who are immigrant artists grappling with the cultural differences of living in New York City. 

From your experience, what advice would you give to an expectant parent regarding leave?

As human beings, we are capable of so many things. We are fearful though.  I have had panic attacks in the past, and I still do, sometimes, but it’s not about myself -it’s about controlling my life.  I feel the key is having the courage to pursue what you have to do.  I’m a dancer/teacher, so when I meet people I read their body language, like a scan.  I don’t want to do it, but it’s because I observe so much and it’s something I do in my daily life.  I work with bodies.  Sometimes I see people who are sad and depressed.  If all of us are happy in what we’re doing, gardening, taking the trash out, and cooking, it would be a better world.  My wish is to encourage people to be themselves and have the courage to face the fear.  Whatever it is, it’s important.  I have many ex-company members that danced for me and then decided they don’t want to dance anymore.  They told me that I'm a reason why they decided to change their career path.  When they were dancing for me, they somehow realized the energy they have needs to go toward the things they love.  If you don’t do the things that you love then you’re miserable.  And it’s contagious!  They’ve pursued their own careers and they are very successful, but it’s about care and dedication and giving 100% to what you do.  So we all need to take care of one another for our collective happiness; the mind, body, and spirit of everything.  When I teach dance, it’s not just about the body, it’s about the whole self. 

I also write, and I feel that’s very important to me to keep publishing things.  Many people tell me that I’m more philosophical now than before, but maybe that has something to do with my legacy.  Perhaps my dances are about the Now, and my writings are the ideas I’m going to leave for the future.  It’s not easy for me to write, it takes me much more work than when I choreograph or teach.  I feel I have to put it into words, and written clarity is very different than choreographic clarity.  I admire the teachers who dance and teach until they die.  I was teaching when my water broke when I was pregnant! I came home and knew I had to go to the hospital.  So is there a pause?  No, it’s my life.  If my body needs to rest, then it’s ok I take a day off.  If not, then what’s the reason?  This is my life. I cannot check out of my life.  If it’s always be like this until I die, then I will be happy.  Retiring?  What is retiring? I can’t imagine that! I have many friends that are older, some teacher friends who are in their 90's.   If I were to retire, I would lose track of how life is happening.  It’s not about now and me, it’s about the future.  That intergenerational connection is super important. 

If you were expected to dance postnatal (either by yourself or your employer) how did you approach your recovery?

When I speak with someone in a leadership role in the art world that doesn’t have any kids, they have no clue what’s going on behind the scenes with a choreographer who is also a mother of two kids.  

For example, a choreographer who lives in Peru takes my online class on Saturdays, and she just gave birth two months ago. This past week she was breastfeeding during class, and of course, I noticed.  When it came to the improvisation, I said “Take it easy, listen to your body, because I know how your body feels when you’re sleep deprived and you haven’t showered in days.  I know what it is, so I can guide you in another way,  I know how it feels.” Of course it was natural for me to have more patience.  When you’re with leaders who don’t have this experience, there is a lack of empathy more often than not. And this is compounded even more with immigrants.  

For example, there are so many grants in the United States that say, “We have so many resources for immigrants” and I think to myself, “really? I don’t know about that.”  First off, English is a requirement for immigrants to even apply for these resources, so don’t tell me it’s so accessible.  Now I have seen applications that accept spoken recordings instead of written artist statements for example, which wasn’t an option when I first moved here, so some things look like they’re getting better. But there’s  a long, long way to go. To have access to certain circles, you need to have certain information.  Does everyone have access to this information? No.  

I never felt discriminated against in New York City or in America.  If people have talked, I never heard it, but when you go into certain circles there's not so much diversity.  Sometimes when I speak up people say, “Oh I never thought about it that way.”  Some people see it one way.

What changed most for you on your return to work?

I always say that if I didn’t have children, I would be the most bitter dance critic, choreographer, and artist.  Bitter and mean.  I could see myself going down that route, but I have kids and the kids teach you not to be like that.  It’s like how everyone in New York has a pet.  My neighbors will say hi to me if I’m walking my dog, but won’t give met the time of day, otherwise.  It’s very interesting that animals and kids make us better people.  They make us more open and in touch with our emotions.  For me, having kids made me more vulnerable, more scared, and more worried.  There’s always a part of you that’s scared for your kids, but at the same time, I’m happier and celebrating life, more tender, and more compassionate because of them.  I have a dog, so when I see another dog on the street I say, “oh how cute!” and I’m happy.  The same goes for a kid.  If you don’t have a kid, if you don’t breastfeed a kid, or change their diapers; or if you’ve never been up every two hours, because the baby is crying and you don’t know why, then you don’t know.  When I see other mothers, I immediately know what they’ve been through, because I’ve experienced it myself.  

In the dance community and in New York City, not so many people have kids, so maybe the way they see things is more fixed.  I think I wouldn’t be as open-minded if I didn’t have children.  I need to learn what they learn about, and I push myself to be more creative, more imaginative when they are around.  I never cared about dinosaurs until my son wanted to learn about it, then we went every weekend for months to the Museum of Natural History.  I knew all of the names of the dinosaurs.  Same thing with soccer. In a million years, I never pictured myself watching documentaries about English soccer teams.  I hardly care about soccer, but my son loves it, so I learn about it.  They make me a better person, otherwise, I would probably be more small-minded.  

Does parenting help you in your work?

I always say that if I didn’t have children, I would be the most bitter dance critic, choreographer, and artist.  Bitter and mean.  I could see myself going down that route, but I have kids and the kids teach you not to be like that.  It’s like how everyone in New York has a pet.  My neighbors will say hi to me if I’m walking my dog, but won’t give met the time of day, otherwise.  It’s very interesting that animals and kids make us better people.  They make us more open and in touch with our emotions.  For me, having kids made me more vulnerable, more scared, and more worried.  There’s always a part of you that’s scared for your kids, but at the same time, I’m happier and celebrating life, more tender, and more compassionate because of them.  I have a dog, so when I see another dog on the street I say, “oh how cute!” and I’m happy.  The same goes for a kid.  If you don’t have a kid, if you don’t breastfeed a kid, or change their diapers; or if you’ve never been up every two hours, because the baby is crying and you don’t know why, then you don’t know.  When I see other mothers, I immediately know what they’ve been through, because I’ve experienced it myself.  

In the dance community and in New York City, not so many people have kids, so maybe the way they see things is more fixed.  I think I wouldn’t be as open-minded if I didn’t have children.  I need to learn what they learn about, and I push myself to be more creative, more imaginative when they are around.  I never cared about dinosaurs until my son wanted to learn about it, then we went every weekend for months to the Museum of Natural History.  I knew all of the names of the dinosaurs.  Same thing with soccer. In a million years, I never pictured myself watching documentaries about English soccer teams.  I hardly care about soccer, but my son loves it, so I learn about it.  They make me a better person, otherwise, I would probably be more small-minded.  

Do you know of any resources that already exist for parents who work in dance?

Dance Mama!!!

Anything else you think would be worth raising? (Here you can expand on your relevant work)

When I decided to move to New York in 1999, I told my grandmother “I want to move to New York to pursue my career”.  Having moved from Italy after the second world war to Argentina, she told me very clearly and very openly, that if I leave I was going to miss many things.  She said her mother died in Italy, and she was not able to be beside her.  Back then there wasn’t an opportunity to travel.  After she left, she only returned to Italy once in 50 years to see her family.  They wrote letters until later on when phone calls were more accessible.  So she warned me about the things I would leave behind.  

Being an immigrant I’ve learned a lot about adaptation and openness.  I’ve learned how to see another way of living.  In Argentina, we only have one type of religion for example, Catholicism, so being here I think about, and interact with, so many different types of religions. I’ve expanded my horizon and have opened my mind on what life can be, rather than being so judgemental.  I’m so aware of the possibilities and life choices.  On the other hand, when I would go back to Argentina my grandmother used to say, “Oh you became bitter, you lost your sweetness, your innocence.”  I noticed that I’m a sadder person here. When I’m in Argentina I know happiness, joy, and celebration.  I don’t feel that here in America. Here it’s hard to celebrate.  People don’t know how to celebrate without alcohol, and that’s not entertaining to me or celebratory.  Even celebrating birthdays here is rare - I can count on one hand how many birthdays I’ve gone to for my kids’ friends.  Maybe it’s the economy or something.  So for certain things, the environment starts to shape you and I notice this in myself.  I’m much more introverted and sometimes gloomy, but that’s not what I am in Argentina. 

It’s very interesting that the city brings out certain things about me, like obsessiveness.  I’m obsessed with knowledge and I have the time here and the access that I don’t have in Argentina.  When I go to Argentina they ask me, “How are you doing” They don’t ask me, “How many festivals are you showcasing work at.”  So the value system from one country to another is very different, so I need to remind myself of that. As a mother, I try to share the values I got from my country to my kids here but it’s difficult.  The friends I made in Argentina and Italy…I’ve never made those types of friendships here in New York and I’ve been here 17 years and I wonder why?  Well, society here pushes you to be more isolated, more competitive, and you don’t have time for anything.  Meanwhile, in Argentina or in Italy, people knock on your door, “hey we came over to eat!”  People make time for friendship, which is very important for me, and I can’t really do it very much in New York.  The environment shapes you and you need to fight much more in order to keep friendships here. Why does this need to be such an effort?  That’s something that should come naturally!  I think I will never get used to certain things.

More about Anabella...

Originally from Argentina, Anabella Lenzu is a dancer, choreographer, scholar & educator with over 30 years of experience working in Argentina, Chile, Italy, and the USA. 

Lenzu directs her own company, Anabella Lenzu/DanceDrama, which since 2006 has presented 400 performances, created 15 choreographic works and performed at 100 venues, presenting thought provoking and historically conscious dance-theater in NYC.

As a choreographer, she has been commissioned all over the world for opera, TV programs, theatre productions, and by many dance companies. She has produced and directed several award-winning short dance films and screened her work in over 200 festivals both nationally and internationally.